I was in the middle of a photoshoot for a dating app at a fancy lounge when a young server interrupted and said, “I don’t get all this. Why don’t you just be yourself and take a normal photo (instead of a photoshoot)?”
The photographer and I went on to explain to her how a somewhat attractive woman could take a photo in front of a dumpster with a potato and get many likes a day, but the average man had to put in a lot more work to get a chance to get noticed and to attempt to get more than one like a week. Eventually, after a good amount of back and forth, it seemed like she understood and acknowledged us.
Women just don’t understand.
A good portion of women on apps get away (even some who work in marketing as a profession) with just posting grainy mirror or bedroom selfies or casual photos they previously took from Facebook or Instagram with their friends. They’re making tons of mistakes in marketing themselves poorly yet they’re unaware of it and they’re able to get away with because of a supply and demand issue.
In contract, men don’t have it that easy. This new video by Memeable Data on YouTube explains the statistics of why men get so few matches on dating apps with statistics and beautiful visuals.
Long story short, there are various reasons why there is a 10 to 100x magnitude difference in results between the average man and woman on these apps. The video acknowledges three key reasons and demonstrates this with statistics and animations. That said, he acknowledges there are various other reasons (ethnicity, population size, etc.). The three reasons are:
- there is at least two times more men on the main platforms, which can cause all sorts of supply-demand behaviors, such as men liking more women than they typically would because they aren’t getting many matches.
- women are the choosier species to begin with. They’re often much more likely to like someone than a man, and they’re looking for reasons to say no.
- There’s an unequal distribution where the top 1 to 15% of men get most women’s likes. The rest of the men are left with the scraps. This sucks, but it’s not surprisingly. This Pareto distribution manifests itself in other areas of life, such as how 20% of the population hold 80% of the income.
When you consider all of these demoralizing findings, you may just feel discouraged about online dating and give up on it. However, I like how the video concludes with a positive thesis. His conclusion is not that you should stop using apps. He asserts that the numbers show that online dating works and creates a lot of relationships that wouldn’t have otherwise existed. Heck, I know people in real life who didn’t have exceptional profiles who are married because of Tinder or other apps. And it’s still my primary way of getting dates because meeting in real life can be even more challenging (in my experience, after a lot of approaching, women aren’t as receptive and quick to reject in person – your mileage may vary depending on your game and presentation. With apps, you’re already going through a filter where both parties have shown interest, but in person, they may not be interested or available to begin with.)
Instead, the video’s thesis is that these apps can give you a distorted perspective of your self-image and the dating world. Men can feel more worthless or low-value than they actually are because the odds are stacked against them. Women can feel entitled or use it as a way to validate themselves or pump up their self-esteem, when they really aren’t as amazing as they think. Don’t let your struggles or gains on these apps affect your self-esteem. Instead, cultivate a healthy self-love that you can maintain before you turn to the apps.
As mentioned in the book What Women Want (previously titled Mate) by Tucker Max, online dating is still this magical modern tool that many of our ancestors didn’t have; you can literally open your phone and find anyone interested in a radius close to you. It’s literally magic and a very efficient extra tool that you can add to your arsenal. So, despite the issues with it, there’s value in using it to the best of our ability. I know a friend who is getting up there in age who is still trying to meet someone naturally. While I have been pushing him to try dating, he won’t. And the fact of the matter is, he’s not going on any dates and hasn’t for a long time. While dating apps suck and don’t work great for me, they work enough that I’m doing better than him. I really wish he’d give them a try because he’s smart, funny, has a great job, and athletic, but he barely meets any new girls with his typical lifestyle of going to work > gym > home > maybe one activity exploring somewhere new on the weekends.
So what did this video miss or get wrong? I think it was generally spot on, though there are various other factors that make reality a bit more complicated. First, you should definitely fire on all cylinders rather than just rely on online dating for all your dates. This reliance can turn into a crutch and prevent you from creating the skills to cultivate a social life. Your ancestors didn’t have this, which forced them to build vital social skills.
Another benefit for trying to meet people in person is that there are women who won’t use dating apps, so if you rely on them, you are missing a whole section of the population of eligible women. Additionally, they may like you in person but not on your dating profile (or vice versa) because your profile has terrible photos or photos you thought were great but marketed you poorly. The more chances you have, the more you get your foot in the door. There was this one relationship coach on Instagram Logan Ury who made a video recently about how she swiped left (rejected) her future husband on an app, but then, she got to know him in person and fell for him.
That said, you still need to be able to learn how to cultivate a lifestyle that is social enough that leads to enough new interactions. Because as mentioned in my example of my friend, you can still fail to meet new people if you live in a small town or don’t know how to find or create social events that lead to meeting new connections. That’s not my expertise and there’s a lot of other factors to consider (are you anxious to go out? are you anxious to meet new people? are you courageous enough to flirt or make a move? These are just some of the barriers I’ve seen), so we’ll keep that out of the scope of this conversation.
It’s not just men suffering from this, but women too. One of my recent Uber drivers told me she was in her late 40s and still single. She was frustrated with where to meet men because she doesn’t go to clubs or bars and doesn’t like them. And she says she thinks she should met a man at a hiking group, meetup, or something like that. Yet here she was still struggling. She said she was hoping to meet someone at a lounge she was invited to with her friend later that week… When I asked about if she tried the apps, she said she’d rather meet someone “naturally.”
Well, life isn’t a fairytale and not everything gets handed to you on a silver platter. When you’re not thriving, you got to fire on all cylinders and put your best effort out there to increase your chances. I told her how these apps will probably be better for her because the odds are much better stacked in the advantage of the woman. I told her to get on the apps! Hiking and meetups could work too since I’ve experienced a lot of those, and it’s mostly men there. Yet I felt like she barely attended those anyways, and it wasn’t working. I told her about my friend’s story, and how you got to do what you can to increase your chances as much as you can or life will pass you by.
As my ride ended, she said she thinks she’s going to give it a try, this just might be what she needed to hear, and she’s thankful we met and had this conversation. Will that be all she needs to save the day? Probably not. But it’ll increase her chances a lot. One date a week is better than zero.
Getting started on these apps is step 1. But especially for men, wow do we optimize our dating profile and photos to increase the quantity and quality of our matches? I wasn’t satisfied with getting one or two matches a week with people I didn’t find attractive. Getting more likes on the apps can be difficult, but well worth it.
Part of it is improving yourself as a person outside of these apps: working out a lot to improve your physique, improving your fashion so you don’t look terrible, having a well-rounded list of hobbies and activities so you can demonstrate traits a women looks for (humor, openness/travel/adventure, discipline/work ethic, athleticism, playfulness, social proof – do you have friends? do other women like you?, warmth/comfort – dog photo, etc.).
But that alone isn’t enough. Many men are under-marketing themselves. They are a 7 out of 10 in real life when it comes to having well-rounded attractive traits in the sexual marketplace but market themselves like a 3 out of 10 on the apps because they don’t know how to demonstrate those things, so they just post several mirror selfies.
So, here are some common mistakes that you need to avoid that I learned the hard way.
Mistake #1: Trying to figure it out yourself by taking your own photos.
I have been that dude who tried to save money and try to do it all myself for years. I spent years of time taking hundreds of photos, and sure, my skills grew, but I could’ve saved a lot of time and got better photos if I had just invested in someone else. I constantly tried out new locations and took the photo with my phone, eventually upgrading to a real mirrorless camera, trying different outfits, poses, and locations … only to barely to see much results. Photography is hard, and I’m still not great at it. And as you’ll see, even professional photographers don’t know what they’re doing…
Mistake #2: Assuming that paying for the paid version of apps will solve your problems.
Before we get into hiring the wrong photographer, let’s address the fact that some people think that the “dating app algorithms are just holding back all the good stuff until you pay.” Well, if your profile sucks, paying for the more premium versions will barely get you any more results. Women will still not be interested in matching with you. Just because you’re served up to more people doesn’t change that.
It sounds obvious to some people, but others are so hung up on the idea that the apps are forcing them to pay that they believe throwing money at the app will solve their problems. Chances are most of you reading this have profiles nad photos that are suboptimal. It’s best to think of investing in a paid app like throwing gas and fuel onto a fire. If your fire sucks or doesn’t exist, throwing more wood on a non–existent fire will not make the fire grow bigger. Fix your photos first.
Mistake #3: Hiring a local photographer who doesn’t specialize in dating photos.
So, you finally decide it’s time to invest in yourself and shell out some money. Certainly, all your problems will be solved now that you’re paying a few hundred dollars for it, right? Well, don’t say I didn’t warn you when your pro photos barely increase your matches.
If you’re about to google “photographers near me”, please stop immediately. The issue is that most local photographers in a city get paid shooting weddings, professional headshots, or couples portraits. They have NO idea what they’re doing when it comes to creating an optimized photoshoot for a man’s dating profile even though they’ll fervently tell you that they do.
I’ve wasted a good chunk of money to get cheesy nonsense photos that don’t get results. You’ll likely get told to show up at some local park or attraction. Then, you won’t be given much direction on what to wear, so if your fashion sense sucks and makes you look low-value to women, well, that’s not the photographer’s problem. And you’re not going to get much direction or variety in your shots other than some suggestions on poses and to SMILE directly at the camera.
The end-result is a bunch of photos that clearly look like you took a JC Penney photoshoot for a stock photography magazine. Sure, the photos are higher-quality than the typical mirror selfies, but it’s literally just you in different poses, walking around a park. It doesn’t convey much about you other than how you look, if you dressed well (assuming you did), and you paid for high-quality photos that weren’t that candid because it’s clear that you got a photoshoot at a park.
And that leads to the third mistake…
Mistake #4: Assuming men and women look for the exact same things in photos on dating apps.
This mistake is related to mistake #2 because it also implies that these pro photographers have no idea the difference between what genders look for in dating photos. This lack of knowledge is damaging to you because you’re going to waste a lot of money paying some wedding or real-estate photographer for an unoptimized photoshoot.
There’s been a lot of scientific research, as detailed in books like Why Women Have Sex, that consistently show that men and women look for different things in dating. For example, status and income are a lot more important for women. Looks and health are a lot more important for men. Additionally, women look for personality, humor, intelligence, whether you have male and female friends, mental health, access to resources (not just money), whether you can protect and assert yourself, whether you can be kind, and whether you have an interesting lifestyle.
I won’t go into the details as to why or else, this article’s going to be too long, but the short answer is that because women are capable of and have to bear children and men do not. These biological differences snowball into different roles that men and women have evolved to look for and optimize for over millions of years. Read the book mentioned for more details.
Now, the issue is that most of the general public and pro photographers are unaware of these basic principles of evolutionary biology and dating, so they take dating photos of men exactly like they would take them for women: have the person in the center of the frame and then add a little bit of background that’s blurred, showcasing only the individual’s beauty, style, and looks.
Most dudes just stop here, and they wonder why their profile performs decent but not great. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what women are looking for. While looks still matter to women to an extent, there’s so much more they’re screening for as well, and if you don’t have it, you become one-dimensional. Women will look to see if you’re somewhat fit versus obese. And they would rather have someone muscular than not. But to think that all that you can showcase or offer is your looks is inaccurate.
While a lot of dating coaches recommend a professional photo shoot, most photographers in your city suck. Don’t be surprised when the higher-quality photos from the shoot don’t do as well as you expected. I mean you’re now just a dude in a park or field with crisper images. Big whoop.
My first couple attempts at a shoot with a local photographer didn’t go great. I told another photographer I was considering on the phone that I didn’t want to look as feminine because my style was off based on feedback from a paid dating group. She didn’t understand or take the time to learn more and just said “Oh, just be yourself” and “There’s nothing wrong with being feminine and stylish.” She showed a complete lack of understanding and ability to help a man be more masculine and attractive and reminded me of the girl who always friend-zones you and tells you to be yourself and then goes for the bad boy. I was sure that if I showed up to the shoot with some dorky outfits, she wouldn’t say a thing and proceed to take a bunch of shots of me at a par with little direction, leading to more postcard portrait shots that don’t work on apps.
You see, unless a photographer specializes in dating photos and has a track record of producing attractive, masculine photos, they don’t know what they’re doing and will produce nonsense. It takes a special skill to capture the right angles, accentuate your jawline, paint you as masculine, attractive, with an edge, and so forth.
Here’s a sample of some of the shots I got during this era. While friends and family were too nice to give any criticism, the paid dating community were filled with men who weren’t willing to hold back. They were rather harsh, maybe too harsh. But I’d rather have that feedback than nice platitudes. I was told, in much more harsh language suited for the streets than this article, that I give off a low-value, weak, nerdy vibe, and the goofy smile, rather than conveying warmth, adds too much of the nice guy persona like the folks from The Office that just doesn’t build attraction.
And that leads to the next mistake, which is…
Mistake #4: Assuming that the photographer is a magician that will fix everything. You still need to work on yourself.
A photographer isn’t going to make you jacked. You still need to invest in your health and get your nutrition and workout routine on point to get the physique. He can also only do so much with your body language the day of the shoot since it takes more time than that to change. Instead, it’s better to spend a lot of time to change your inner identify and body language. I’m still working on that to this day, but I’ve been told that I need to convey more “alpha” body language: relaxed movement, arms taking up space, smooth head movements, smirks instead of wide goofy smiles, and so forth. This is feedback you rarely ever get from local friends and family. I need to make it a practice to be aware of my movement and practice in front of a mirror or as I walk around. I also need to keep affirmations going because I am a pretty awesome dude who has accomplished a lot. My younger identity just hasn’t caught up with that yet.
Many women will give terrible advice to me like “Oh, you’ll find someone who likes you for you.” or “Yeah, you should smile.” “Say cheese. Big smile!” First, smiling works well in conveying warmth in certain situations for certain archetypes. Your mileage may vary depending on your unique archetype. For me, I already convey way too much warmth in a nerdy, friend-zone way. Adding a goofy smile may be too much. I can still smile, but I had to find the smile that works for me.
There’s lots of theories why women across the world give the unhelpful advice to be yourself. Some say it’s a way to help women screen men. They don’t care that it won’t help you; they just want you to not lie because it helps them see who has honest signals of the traits they care for. Others say it’s because they’ve experienced being trying to be dishonest and it’s a turn off. So, they think being genuine helps. Sure, it helps a bit, but men throw their hands up and say they are already being themselves and likely what you have been doing for a long time, and it hasn’t been working.
Yeah, some of us can be a lot more genuine, but likely, it’s not going to explode our results. For me, I’ve felt like it’s an automatic response they give, and they don’t care if it’ll lead to you not getting the quality of women you want as long as it gets you a little bit better. What if I want to up-level myself and not have to settle? What about the woman of my dreams?
Instead, be your better self. Don’t try to be someone you’re not. But figure out your strengths and accentuate those traits while removing the things that put you off. Don’t try to choose the things that you are very weak at. If you’re not charismatic and outgoing, don’t try to all of a sudden act like you’re the king of the party.
One of my points here is to just be careful of fake gurues online. There are some female dating coaches (and some males) who just sit in front of a camera, film vertical short videos, or YouTube videos, and give advice. And that’s 99% of their content for hundreds of videos. There’s no real substantial before-after, testimonials, or credibility. Yet they make a lot of money selling services. Just be careful and look for results before diving in. Some may be worth it, just check them out first.
So, with all the mistakes said, that leads to my big recommendation:
Choose a pro dating photographer who knows what they’re doing and can help you plan the shots you want.
This is where I found Justin Harder, one of the top dating photographers in the country, who I found through the paid dating community I joined.
After I have shot with him, he’s dramatically raised his prices and got a lot more attention. Now, men fly in from all over the world, from the UK, Australia, Canada, and more to visit him in Florida to shoot with him. If you scroll through his Instagram profile, you can see the difference in the before-after of the shots. This guy just knows how to take shots that expose your jawline, make your look masculine, put you in the best light, and set up props/situations to make you look attractive.
Justin has continued to uplevel his shoots every year. They’re now ten times better than they were before.
(e.g., you with female friends, you making a drink, playing a guitar, playing golf, looking off to the distance at a rooftop bar, on a yacht, in a business suit walking around with a suitcase, you get the idea).
Now, it was at this point that you might think, “All your problems are solved!” In fact, a few people expressed that to me. They were confident Justin’s photos would save everything. One dating coach I had, Giovanni Wan, told me I have to throw those onto my profiles immediately and there’s no way, I’m not going to see a significant improvement in my matches. I told him that maybe I should create a new profile given that my elo ranking was so low after years of using the same account – he cut me off and told me to just post them.
That turned out to be a bad idea. It didn’t work well or hit matches, so Justin told me to create fresh profiles. Theory and opinions doesn’t always match with results in the real world. The new profiles set my elo ranking on these dating sites as a blank slate (in theory – they may have facial matched me and lowered my score who knows). From that, I got an initial boost in the first one to two weeks and did get more matches at first. It looks like it was working …
After that period, it didn’t perform well. And it’s my fault. My theory is that I wasn’t thoughtful or creative enough when I planned this shoot. So, what ended up happening was I got several professional, well-taken photos of me dressed well and having a more edgy and less nice guy look, sitting, standing or walking around. So, what does really covey about me that will stand out or show me as less one-dimensional? Not much other than the fact that I can style myself decently (which is still better than before) and I got the time to get a shoot (which can come off try-hard or artificial if they catch wind of it and all the photos look the same).
I should’ve done what others who got shoots after me did, which could include but are not limited to: photo with female friends, playing piano (I do play), playing guitar, rented a dog, on the beach, showing my athleticism / shirtless photo by the pool (not my strong point, but an example of one dimension women care about – obviously, men care more about looks, but that’s not to say women don’t as well).
But hindsight it 20-20, and back then, Justin didn’t have as many clients he posted that I could reference. I blame myself though. I wasn’t creative or planned enough. It wasn’t his responsibility to figure it all out at the time. He did give me some tips at the end for the future, like wear tighter clothing, hit the gym, tattoos if you want (I’m not a tattoo guy myself – that’s just me though. I don’t want to taint my body).
Finding the Truth Between Data and Opinions
I recently finished a book called Everybody Lies, which shows us that most people will lie about stuff when surveyed or asked for their opinion. The way he proves this is with data, which tells them how they really think. The author uses various forms of big data, like Google search data or government census data, to show that people are more racist than they think, the north may be more racist than the south, and that people will claim they got better grades in school than they did and donated recently when they didn’t.
This book was recommended to me in a Books Recommended section in a course/program/community I went through called Personal Brand Creator Pro by Corey Chaloff. Corey is an expert in making your personal brand excellent for dating or business/networking, having built a successful brand and Instagram himself to be able to network and work with the top people in the nightlife industry in NYC, Las Vegas, Miami, etc.
His intention for recommending the book is to say how you can’t trust people’s opinions on what dating photos will work. You have to use large data. He recommends a site called Photofeeler, which allows you to upload photos, and then people are paid (with money or karma they can spend themselves) to vote on your profiles based on attractiveness, intelligence, and trustworthiness. (Note: I know they have other categories that you can use for business, I’m just focusing on their dating feature.)
While this makes a lot of sense to me because I also believe that people lie and an opinion is just theory, and the results are often much different, I have learned over time that even Photofeeler is a flawed tool as well. Having run a lot of photos through there, I can tell you that the highest rated ones that have really great scores don’t do that well. At the end of the day Photofeeler isn’t the end-all-be-all because perhaps, it’s yet again, just people’s opinions and theory. Corey recommends getting ten votes per photo and you’re good. Perhaps, more votes could help or maybe it won’t. Others in the paid dating group I mentioned have also confirmed that Photofeeler and/or group feedback have also lead them astray to surprisingly subpar results.
And these paid or private Facebook groups or communities where people doing better give tips and feedback, well, they’re not perfect either. I have gotten feedback from a couple members that the tips that the experts or admins gave didn’t work for them either, so take their tips with a grain of salt.
So what do we do? Just give up? Refuse to use these groups and tools because they’re not perfectly accurate? We’re all just crawling around in the dark throwing spaghetti at the wall, trying our best. But at the end of the day, I still think I’m moving in a better direction than the average joe. While many are just feeling around in the dark, with these tools and people, I at least have some directional guidance that will move me in the right direction, even if it’s not precise. That’s because I have a community of people who are doing fairly well who at least have a sense of what’s right and wrong, even if some of their theories may be off at times. The average joe doesn’t have that – if they’re lucky, they may have natural intuition that guides them there or things they just so happen to be doing right already. They may benefit by investing in themselves to get out of that by joining a community, coach, or course.
Sure, some of these people had good intentions, and they gave me advice on the best layout of photos that should work based on my archive of photoshoots, and dozens of photos I’ve taken myself. And even with this layout, things don’t perform. But it happens. I take the principles they suggest and I move forward with it.
At the end of the day, this isn’t quantum science. You don’t need that much. Look at the influencer Doctor Mike, who got famous on Instagram by posting high-quality photos in a doctor uniform, working out, and with his dogs. Within a small variation of photos, he’s conveyed that he’s handsome, high-earning, intelligent, trustworthy, and athletic. So likely, my next step is to take some of the advice given to me already by some folks, and get some comforting photos with animals, keep working out and hope that pays off years down the line, and find a way to show my professional career in a good light. Easier said than done when my work doesn’t involve a lab coat or anything high-flying or paying. And I have done a few photos with a roommate’s dog that I get along with, but those haven’t hit yet. We’ll keep trying.
So, where am I now? I am still taking a lot of photos myself to test out. I have invested in my own mirrorless camera. I’m not great, but I’m getting better since I’m constantly practicing over the last couple years. Yeah, dating is tough. I actually installed Tinder shortly after its initial beta release. And therefore, I have been trying to get this to work for about a decade. I will say that the most growth I’ve had has come in the last couple years when I invested in the paid dating community I mentioned, courses, photographers, feedback, and coaches. Sometimes, it’s better to invest that money and shave years off fruitlessly trying to figure it out yourself.
Not long ago, I shared my dating profile with a woman, and she told me that if I’m having trouble, then the rest of us have no chance. Sometimes, it feels that frustrating because I have put so much time and effort into it over the years and haven’t really hit my stride yet. My photos are generally higher quality in various ways than the average stuff put up. There’s travel destinations, good lighting, good camera, optimized in Lightroom after, and so forth. Yet what I’ve learned is that effort, put in the wrong direction, isn’t always efficient in yielding results. I think I spent a lot of time focused on getting quality photos rather than planning out a multi-dimensional photoshoot of different activities, something Dr. Mike and others do well. Another example is physique. I spent five years going hard at CrossFit. I went basically every weekday, which was more than the majority of my classmates. Yet I didn’t see the muscular size gains I wanted, even though I expressed that to coaches and they told me to stick with it. Ultimately, I had to learn that this wasn’t the right training methodology to get the volume I needed for hypertrophy and switched to something more efficient. But that was five yeras of solid effort.
I haven’t cracked the code yet, but I am proud of my effort. I have tried so hard for so many years and learned so much about marketing yourself. Yet there’s still a lot of room to grow. No complaints. There’s still people who have put in more work in the gym or their job to get to where they are, so no complaining. Work smarter, not just harder.
On the positive side, I have developed my skills in photography, lighting, videography, framing, composition, choosing a location, planning a shot with props, etc., all of which I will be funneling into building my personal brand, so I won’t let it go to waste.
Like I said, most men and women are clueless. To this day, a lot of the profiles from both genders that I see are terrible – bathroom selfies, grainy photos with friends, random photos in front of a wall or at a random EDC event, or a low-effort series of selfies. They are not conveying themselves anywhere close to their best.
Any for some of these folks, they get decent enough results, and move on, not knowing what they’re doing wrong. Many people are 6 out of 10, yet they present themselves online like a 3 out of 10. Your job should at least to get yourself to a 6 in perception if not higher. I have taken a lot more photos and went through one more photoshoot with another person… and yet I’m still being ripped apart from feedback in that dating group. One most recent comment was “Yeah this gives my nice guy jehovah witness energy.” Another was “You look like an Asian tech guy who cuddles his wife to sleep.” Harsh, but better than women withholding feedback to avoid hurting my feelings.
It’s feedback that I can use to continue to work on myself. Because this goes beyond some digital photos. It goes into how I convey myself as a person. Something about my energy and body language still conveys a very nice guy energy that puts off girls and gives back the all-too-familiar “there’s no chemistry” response frorm them. There’s part of my inner game, my inner energy that needs to evolve.
In my case, the cliche of “just be yourself” is wrong. Unless I’m satisfied with the results I can currently achieve, I’m going to have to be a better, different version of myself to hit the primal, evolutionary attraction triggers that attract them rather than have them think “Oh, he’s a nice guy. Not for me. He’ll find another, whatever.” I hope to continue to refine how I come across externally to others in the ways I want. The edgy badboy isn’t exactly congruent to me or where I want to go, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction to get off the friendzone vibe. I’ll continue to find the in-between where I can be my authentic self while moving towards the attractive persona that attracts the people I want.
