The truth about dating is that most guys (and girls) have no idea what they’re doing. They have these theories they think are right, randomly choose a place (like a bar), and hope for the best. But there’s a much better way to get more of the people you want to like you.
In this article, I will show you how you can actually get results by thinking like a good marketer. You need to reverse engineer where these people you want to hang out. This can be used for a lot of different areas of your life, not just dating. For example, if you are having trouble finding your ideal customer, you can use this model as well. Moreover, you might realize that if you’re not a charismatic extrovert, that it’s okay to not to go to a bar or club to meet someone.
This is what I learned from the books, What Women Want by Tucker Max and Dr. Miller (mostly this one; it’s the definitive scientific guide to dating for men, organized into easy-to-understand language on the principles to attracting women based on decades of scientific research) and Single, Shy, and Looking for Love: A Dating Guide for the Shy & Socially Anxious by Dr. Kolakoswki.
How To Get An Abundance of Your Ideal Women While Working Less
Most men walk through life like zombies, hoping they’ll stumble into their perfect girl at a bar or random location. The chances of that are horrifically low. Plus, it’s less likely she will like you even if you find her.
Instead, let’s be a bit more strategic about this. As a man, you have strengths and weaknesses. Some girls are into your strengths while others are not. Therefore, you have a specific type of bait. So find out which types of fish you want, which of these fish like your bait, and go to where they hang out in abundance.
If you like fit women, you’ll get a much higher concentration of them at a fitness event versus a random public location. So why are you going to the latter? Of these fit women, some may only be into superficial traits, while others care more about intelligence. This is where most guys screw up.
You have to go to women who care about what you have to offer. If you’re a skinny smart nerd who likes fit women, you should go to a fitness-themed academic event rather than a fitness expo otherwise, women won’t be into what you have to offer. Yet most guys keep screwing this up and going to the latter.
You’re essentially going after girls who are into stuff you don’t offer. They’re not interested in wisdom yet.
To use a business analogy, this is just marketing 101. Find out where specifically where your ideal prospects hang out and go there. Let’s break it down in detail:
First, be much more specific with what type of women you like. Are they athletic? Are they calm or assertive? What do they enjoy doing? What do they look like? All these questions will help you get more specific with the key hotspots to hang out rather than keep it a vague generality.
If you’re new to dating, you may not know everything just yet. You still need to experience dating different women to figure out what you like. Just do what you can for now.
Now, use these to list out at least five top places women hang out.
Keep in mind that you may not have the most to offer in all the categories women want (yet), so keep in mind that you may have to compromise with some of these traits. Use this knowledge to tone down your list to something more reasonable. You may have Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show on there because you want fit women, for example, but those women are often some of the hottest in the world and you have no way of getting there or way to compete with the men. How about a local fitness bootcamp instead?
Next, identify what your current strengths are right now. Are you funny? Are you intellectual? Are you athletic and muscular?
Which of these places highlights your strengths the most? For example, you may like athletic women, so you put Beach Volleyball rec teams on your list. But you’re not that muscular and your strength is your academic intelligence. Well, maybe Beach Volleyball won’t be as good as a Physiology lecture club. You get the idea?
Now, to help you out even more, I want to debunk some myths and give you specific ideas of places you never would have even considered…
Bars and Night Clubs Are Horrible Places To Meet Women
You’ve been lied to by Hollywood, businesses, and American culture. These are the worst places to meet women for most guys.
Maybe you’ve been lead to believe that you can consistently go up to a girl you never met and quickly hook up with her in these environments. It can be done but it’s very hard and requires a lot of experience. Plus, it’s suited for guys who excel based on what a girl can see with her eyes because these places make it hard to hear or say anything due to the noise. It favors people who are confident, outgoing, loud, funny, well-dressed, rich, muscular, and verbally fluent.
Being able to meet a girl you’ve never met, pick her up, and seduce her is a myth. Only a small fraction of the women at these venues actually go home with anyone that night. And usually, she’s decided to do so beforehand and is only deciding who during the night.
Most guys don’t have the personality type to do that. And that’s okay. It’s not your scene, so go to a scene that plays to your strengths. There are easier and better ways.
Now, your culture and the filmed industry have tricked 99.99% of guys to assume that bars and nights clubs are the best and only way to meet women. But they’re horrible places.
It’s dangerous, competitive, and difficult because:
- There are a lot more guys to compete against.
- The environment and loud music emphasize superficial traits rather than your personality like nonverbal cues, physique, body language, clothing, accessories, and wealth.
- It’s dark, crowded, and noisy. This makes it harder to communicate and puts women more on guard.
- Women are ruder and more defensive because of the stronger and potentially dangerous male strangers around. This triggers deep primal fears of rape. The increased number of people hitting on her doesn’t help.
A bar is a bad place for meeting people because it has both gender’s worst fears at play.
Women biologically most fear being sexually assaulted. Men biologically most fear sexual humiliation. Both are most at play here.
So now, you are probably wondering, “Where are some actually good places to meet women besides bars?”
Let me tell you…
Make You Dating Life An Extension of Your Social Life
The best way to meet women is to make your dating life an extension of your social life. Getting introduced to someone by a friend is still one of the main ways people find the love of their lives. That’s because it’s primal and it addresses women’s biggest unconscious fears of rape or safety. When you’re introduced by a friend, you’re more trustworthy because a friend you trust has shown a vote of safety and approval.
In fact, test this out yourself. Ask the most attractive women you know how they met who they were dating. Most of the time, they will say they met through a friend.
Why Community and Social Groups Are Great For Dating
A community or social meetups are great because:
- You can meet and talk to girls for a legitimate reason.
- You get to know her without worrying about rejection.
- There’s low social and psychological risk.
- You work alongside people and become part of a community.
- You’re part of the same tribe and already have something in common.
- It’s less competitive than a room full of guys at a bar.
- You get to show your attractive, internal traits over more time and on a recurring basis.
- She is in a less intimidating environment.
- The environment doesn’t make her an intimidating, mysterious, terrifying object.
- You become familiar and trusted, which is important to a girl for social safety.
Do more social events and make more friends. Get those friends to introduce you to their friends. The more you do, the more people you meet, and the more places you get invited and the more chances you have to meet someone you like.
Optimizing Your Dating Life From A Geographical Level
What city or town you live affects your situation from a girl-guy ratio, ethnicity, and culture perspective. Simply moving to a better place can increase your success and decrease your competition. If you’re in a town with a population of 1,000, you can be your opportunities and options for dating will increase a lot when you move to a city with 1 million people. While it won’t fix everything, it has a big effect that most people ignore. Don’t just live in the same place you were born for the sake of it. Ask yourself if this is an area to optimize.
Why do many average Americans go to Latin American countries? Because their perceived value is a lot higher. Just making an average salary in America makes you rich to other countries.
Town & City-Level
Smaller towns have less to do and fewer people. A girl’s values can be pumped up because of scarcity.
Larger cities have more events and people to meet but are more competitive because of the wealthier men. There’s a tradeoff. However … Find a place that has more advantages than disadvantages.
Consider the Industries That Make Up the Area
Smaller cities are made up of the business that attracts people there. For example, a city might only have 50-year-old men who work in banking or oil and middle-aged girls who are nurses because that’s the only businesses out there. Industries affect the demographics.
Consider Girl-Guy Ratio The Right Way
Girl-guy ratio in a city is worth considering, but that stat alone is flawed. It can be skewed.
You can look up this number for free online for any city or area, but it factors in every girl living there including age groups you don’t want like below 18 or above 60. It also factors in girls with cultures, preferences, or ethnic backgrounds you’re not interested in.
Generally speaking, you want to pay attention to it without overthinking it. NYC has a better ratio than Seattle. Don’t overanalyze two choices just because one has 2% more men than another city. There’s a point of diminishing returns.
Use the OkCupid Method
A great way of finding out where is best for your goals and personality is with OKcupid, a dating website.
Sign up and answer at least personality 100 questions. Complete your profile. It doesn’t take as long as you think.
Change your zip code to each of the major cities, set the radius to 50 miles. Your best city is the one with the most girls above a match % of 85%.
Answer more questions to get a more accurate reading. It asks questions about sexual preference, ideal mate, and everything else.
I tried this method myself with decent success. I had generally the same results in most major cities, so your mileage may vary depending on your answers.
Reverse Engineer To Find A Better “Lake of Fish”
This is the meat and potatoes of it. I was listening to the Mating Grounds podcast, and one guest revealed how he was good looking and great with women, but the women he’d hook up with at bars were usually not the type he wanted to marry. He said it took him years to realize he was fishing in the wrong lake. So, what can you do to find the right fish? Reverse engineer it:
Picture where your ideal person goes. Think of her lifestyle, tastes, activities, and friends. What does she do for fun? Where does she spend time? Where does she go to meet a great guy? Go there.
You know what most people find out the hard way? That if you fish in a crappy lake, you will get crappy fish.
If you want an ambitious, proper, busy woman, your chances are lower if you just go to a random, low-class bar. The only thing you know about people in a bar is that they like to drink alcohol, not the best differentiating factor to look for. Many people end up finding a lot of bad fish in a bar (financially poor, unproductive, rude, or crazy people).
You may find amazing people at a bar too, but you can say that about any situation with a group of random people. There will probably be some good and bad people. Doing it this was is 100 times less inefficient and doesn’t increase the chances you will bump into people you actually like as a person.
List Out Where She Goes & Where She Would Go To Meet A Quality Guy
Ask girls in real life to get a more realistic picture of where they go. Or make friends with a gay guy who has a lot of girl friends. Why? Because your theories could be way off.
Facebook or Instagram kind of help but social media often gives a skewed picture. Women often only post the highlight of their week or paint a false picture of their lives.
You may think they party a lot, but they really go to the beach and play in a recreational Kickball league.
The Truth About The Best Places to Meet Women…
I wanted to give you examples of good places to meet women based on the reasons stated.
A lot of guys who do better than me with girls have told me “Women are everywhere if you just go outside and look around.” While that’s not really true if you live in a small town, understand the underlying message: Girls are abundant around the world.
Women aren’t going anywhere. Get your life together first. Women aren’t going to disappear so don’t freak out. (But don’t be so chill you waste all of your youth without realizing it).
Here are some great places to meet women. Once you’ve decided on an activity, Google for nearby groups or events or use Meetup.com to find a local group.
- Volunteer at a community event
- Homeless shelters
- No-kill pet animal shelters
- Spend time with senior citizens (a great way to practice talking to someone if you’re nervous talking to girls)
- Park or beach cleanup groups
- Cancer or benefit charity events, like those hosted by Pencils of Promises (usually you get a lot of wealthy, giving people who show up to these).
- Amateur athletic events with a social component
- Tough Mudder
- Spartan Race
- Dance classes (great girl-guy ratio). Look for partner-oriented classes.
- Hip hop
- Arts-themed classes, groups, clubs, or events (great girl-guy ratio because girls love these)
- Stand-up Comedy
- Local choirs
- Fitness classes (great to meet fit girls)
- More interactive than other fitness things
- Note: From personal experience, I’d revise this to say only fitness classes that have a more social culture, like CrossFit or certain fitness studios are good for meeting people. Many, especially stuff that are cookie-cutter, like yoga or Soulcycle, are not conducive to meeting people because the attendees are not there to chat; they want to be in and out because they’re there just to work out. Therefore, some of these are worse than others for chatting.
- Intramural recreational co-ed sports leagues
- Whitewater rafting.
- Beach Volleyball
- Sports groups
- Outdoor mountain trailing.
- Intramural recreational co-ed sports leagues
- Fundraising events
- Breast cancer prevention
- Environmental protection
- The Beach
- Farmer’s markets
- Local-education classes (with great girl-guy ratios)
- Wine tasting
- Canoeing or White water rafting (update: I’ve found this to be fun but usually, tourists there you won’t see again. I find recurring events better)
- Activist groups (progressive groups may be good for short-term dating/hookups)
- Religious groups
- Political groups
- Animal rights
- Drug legalization
- Abortion rights
- Teach people – a great way of demonstrating your value and proficiency. Find something that allows you to legally pursue a student romantically.
- Prep test tutoring
- English tutoring
- Firearm classes
- Archery classes
- Martial Arts (prepare for a worse girl-guy ratio)
- Krav Maga
- Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
- Muy Thai
- Wing Chun
- Conferences – Con: People are often just visiting so it probably won’t be long-term. Might be good for some short-term but might not if they’re all poor and sharing rooms.
- Ted talks
- Self-help like Tony Robbins
- Business conferences
- Niche hobby conferences like Social Media Marketing World, Paleo f(x), or Camp Nerd Fitness (There’s almost one for any hobby if you do some digging).
- Anime, Sci-Fi or Video game (prepare for a worse girl-guy ratio, but if you really love the hobby…)
- Book Clubs
- Toastmasters (Public Speaking group)
- Continuing Education Classes from a Local Community College
- Specific “Singles Only” Themed Groups
- Get an introduction from a friend.
- Public Venues That May Work
- Dog Parks
- Coffee Shops (Harder)
- Groceries (Harder)
- Libraries (Harder)
- Happy Hours
- Any Social Gatherings Your Friends or Family Invite You To
This is not meant to be a complete, comprehensive list. There’s an infinite number of things. There’s many more conferences, classes, and forms of dance than what’s listed on here. Simply use this as a model to brainstorm or take from.
Places Good In Theory But Horrible In Practice
I’ve tested out a lot of the places that the dating advice online lists out. Some of it is horrible. I believe some of these people just list out ideas to put online without ever actually having tried them out. Here is what didn’t work and why.
Do NOT go to:
Yoga – I’ve tried out numerous different yoga classes from many companies. Everyone there is there usually for yoga. They leave immediately after the class and get there late or barely on time. There really is little time to talk. When class is in session, the instructor is talking, so you can’t talk unless you want to be really rude, which the girl won’t like. Trying to chase down a girl after a class can be seen as creepy. Is it possible to do well at meeting people with yoga? Possibly. Maybe the yoga culture in your area is more friendly. Maybe the girl you chase down will be more open. But I’ve consistently found this to be an uphill battle. There are better alternatives. Why make it harder for yourself?
Standard Gyms – Standard gyms like Gold’s Gym, Lifetime Athletics, or Planet Fitness are not great. The only exception would be the group dance or PowerPump classes they offer at the gym because it’s more interactive. But if it’s a normal gym workout, people are in the zone and don’t want to be disturbed. I’ve found that girls here come to exercise, not to talk. They have their headphones on to not be disturbed and give off the vibe that they get hit on often here and are sick of it. I’ve found it’s like pulling teeth here. If you try hard and long enough, you’ll eventually meet a girl who is relaxed enough to stop her workout and talk in a friendly manner. But it’s just less likely and there are better alternatives to meeting women.
Malls and Bookstores – Public venues are given as advice by almost everyone. Average women and dating coaches will recommend going to a mall or coffee shop to meet people. Some of these may work, like a dog park because you both have a common interest in dogs to talk about and it’s a more relaxed setting. But generalized public venues, like a shopping mall, are tough. As for bookstores, there really are not many women in here; I figure people just buy from Amazon these days. Likely spurred on by the thousands of “Pick Up Girls” YouTube videos that have accrued hundreds of millions of views, it seems like attractive girls are approached more than ever when they’re out and about. They seem to have started acting more cold because of the annoyance. It still can be done, but it’s tough. You’ll likely get a higher rejection rate which can be traumatic and scarring for young, shy men.
Marathons – Any long athletic excursion event may not be ideal if you’re a participant because everyone is so focused on preparing for the event. I’ve volunteered for one, which was a bit better for meeting people.
Does the Venue Suck Or Is It Just Your Shyness?
I’ve noticed that sometimes, I can blame the venue when it’s really just my shyness holding me back. I’ve caught myself labeling a place as bad when it was really simply because I wanted an event that forced women to talk to me first so I didn’t have to do any initiating (like a Speed Dating event).
If you find yourself in this situation, check if the venue really sucks or if it’s just an excuse. Some places, like a Pilates or Soul Cycle, class may require you to get out of your comfort zone and initiate with someone before class and talk a bit during class. Don’t make excuses just because it’s a bit “rude” to talk when the instructor is.
Seeing outgoing men strike up friendships in fitness classes that I pegged as “bad for meeting women” really just blew my excuses out of the water. I’ve concluded that, technically, you can meet women in any gathering if you’re outgoing and attractive enough based on what she’s after.
Having said that, there are still venues that are harder to meet girls than others and some of us are a bit shy. So why handicap yourself? That’s why I mentioned the few venues I suggest avoiding.
Tips On Getting The Most Out Of Where You Go
Kill two birds with one stone. Go to a place that improves other areas of attraction such as your sense of humor, confidence, body language, and/or wealth, like a business charity event, self-help event like Tony Robbins, or an Improv class. Even if you don’t meet anyone, you still get value out of it.
Don’t ignore middle-aged or older women. They were once young and beautiful too. It’s great practice and they have younger daughters and friends.
Go somewhere you enjoy. You won’t have as much fun and people might sniff it out if you’re only going to meet people. If that doesn’t work, find some medium between what you like and what they like. Try new things: salsa dancing, rock climbing, etc.
Video game clubs or things with really high guy-girl ratios are bad because of the higher competition and the increased perceived value of the girl.
Try meetup.com. It’s a decent way of gauging the guy-girl ratio before attending with pictures and the RSVP form.
The Miracle Method: Online Dating
Just a few decades ago, most people never got farther than 100 miles than where they were born.
With transportation and online dating, you’re able to expand your chances. We live in a much more convenient world. Use it.
Advantages of online dating: Greater reach, Less work if you present yourself well, and an ability to ask out more people in a shorter time.
Disadvantages of online dating: Girls might be worse than they appear online, the hottest girls don’t use is because they don’t have to, and there’s more competition.
Having said that, there are plenty of girls who represent themselves right because they want a reliable date, there’s still decent girls, and you might be able to beat the extra competition because the average person is so bad on there.
Types of Online Dating
There are a number of different types of online dating websites and apps. Here are some to look at:
- Casual sex
- Adult friend finder
- Short-term dating
- Mid-term dating
- Coffee Meets Bagel
- Long term dating
- Christian Mingle
- Casual sex
Online Dating Tips
More advanced websites like OkCupid allows you to search and filter by height, ethnicity, education, income, body type, drug use, match %, dorkiness, or sexual interest. Use this to find better people.
Make sure your photos are all high-resolution photos. Never have selfies because it comes off like you have no friends and aren’t socially intelligent.
Your main profile photo should be a head shot with a genuine, warm smile.
Show your other attractive traits and proofs. Most guys don’t at all or only show 2 or 3.
The book Mate goes into detail on these but they include:
- Doing something athletic (physical health)
- Having fun with friends (social proof)
- Traveling somewhere exotic (openness, resourcefulness)
- Doing productive work (willpower, material proof)
- Cuddling a pet (tender defender)
- Dressed stylish for an event (aesthetic proof)
Test different photos and see which gets more responses.
Get advice from socially savvy girls to get a good sense of whats good. But try not to jump to conclusions based on one girl’s opinion. Get a decent sample size.
Display as many attractive proofs as you can to a good quality, as mentioned.
Read data advice blogs like OkCupid’s for tips.
Look at others guy’s profiles that are doing well and model theirs.
Emphasize being different and better than other men.
Don’t just say what every other guy says or have hobbies like every other guy. For example, avoid just having standard hobbies like “video games” and “sports.”
Be honest about your shortcomings and goals. You will appear fake or phony if everything you say is pumping yourself up to be better than other men.
Don’t do what every other guy does:
“What are you up to?”
Read her profile and create personalized messages around whats important to her.
This shows romantic proof, respect, and that you’re not generic.
Connect along an interest.
Your first message should be warm, friendly and reassuring. Give insight on her profile and ask her a question.
The goal is not to keep it online. The goal is to get her in person for a real world interaction.
A study of thousands of opening lines and dozens of profiles by ABCs of Attraction (no affiliation) on online dating found that nonsexual questions worked best as opening lines rather than a compliment or anything else. They also found that being too flashy didn’t work well. Having said that, this study was based on Asians so the advice might not work based on your culture and ethnicity.
For people 21 and older, speed dating is a great option because:
- There’s an equal guy-girl ratio
- The venue is optimized for pleasant conversation
- The event implies that both of you are looking
- The 3 to 8 minutes are enough to get a gauge on people without wasting too much time
- It’s structured to avoid approach anxiety or interruptions from rivals
Addressing Embarrassment about Dating Methods
In this day and age, it’s time to get over any embarrassment or aversion to methods like online dating or speed dating events. It’s no longer 1999 when barely anyone used them. Now, most people use them to meet people. It’s much more efficient and effective to match with people who like you within a 25 mile radius online than to go to something in person and hope one of the several people there are interested in you, single, and you like them back. You’re only cheating yourself if you avoid doing anything new because you want it to happen “naturally.” The definition of natural is changing anyways, and there are good guys I know who just aren’t doing much to make an effort because they want it to be natural, which is a shame.
Meeting Them Is The Beginning. Becoming An Attractive Man Is Also Important.
You may be surprised to know that the truth about meeting attractive girls is that it doesn’t automatically solve your problems.
Your dream girl meets flocks of men every day. Yet she rejects almost all of them because they are creepy, weird, too persistent, or lacking in an attractive trait. The book Mate by Tucker Max goes into a lot more detail on how to solve this issue.
I highly suggest you check it out to learn more. If you go through my link I will get a small commission if you buy. I only recommend books I have gone through myself and thoroughly reviewed.
So far, everything I have said has been from the book. I tried my best to not add my own bias and opinions until this section. Now, here’s what I think:
Nightclubs and bars – I don’t like them but to say that you should never go might be too far. Many hot girls go there.
Like it or not, it’s just in the culture of things for people to go there occasionally.
Having said that, I get the point that you shouldn’t over-stretch yourself to go somewhere you really don’t enjoy. There was a clear point in this book that went against the pick-up artist’s advice of forcing yourself to dramatically change your personality to fit a nightclub scene.
Girls are just as clueless as guys sometimes. They don’t know where they should go to meet a quality guy. Sometimes, they’re just bumbling around in random places.
Now, I want to hear from you. Did this help? Is there something missing? And most importantly, do you have any tips that worked that I did not mention? Letting us know in the comments will really help our community. Feel free to go into depth on what you did, and what results you got.